buying a lease

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buying a lease

Post by martinjsto on Wed 31 Jan 2018, 1:24 am

I have been told most gold leases for sale would of been worked over leaving practically no gold for the buyer and in some degree make sense, but am asking if anyone experienced buying leases has found this to be mostly true or not.
i figure to sell a lease gold must be present to show the new buyer potential so if the price is right it wont take too much to recoup the initial cost with a small blower or scraper. whats your thoughts on this and what other cost will be incurred to be able to scrape and detect. i basically have no idea on running a small PL so any advice would be appreciated. im looking at a few PL's ATM, tyre kicking but interested.
cheers
Martin

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Re: buying a lease

Post by boobook on Wed 31 Jan 2018, 5:12 am

If the vendor is confident there are nuggets to be found and he successfully demonstrates that to you, will he offer you the nuggets detected on what is about to become your lease?
I have also detected a rusty can and other junk at around 18" deep on what looked to be natural ground but had obviously been scraped and re habilitated.
Fifteen years of mining boulder opal brings to mind the words "why is it for sale" and more importantly "caveat emptor"
Mike
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Re: buying a lease

Post by pilko on Wed 31 Jan 2018, 7:17 am

it's a big question Martin....and as per usual I'll throw in my 2cents worth.

Be very careful mate as you will prob 'do your dough'. Remember that selling tenements is the easiest way of making a buck out of prospecting.

So why do you want the lease? If it's for a camping spot or just to go for a swing and get some gold...you do not need to pay a cent (maybe some 40E's)....your Miners Right will take care of that for you.

If it's to have somewhere to go and not have any hassles....perhaps.....if your prepared to pay then maybe fair enough.
Maybe it's for emotional reasons...ie"grandad's old patch'...also fair enough if you can afford it.

If it's strictly to conduct ground disturbing activities then also...'maybe'...particularly at the current stage of the cycle as there is very little good VCL available.

I'll give you an example....I'm selling a lease for 10k...a one block E....I have had MANY calls about it and the first question I ask is 'what do you want it for'..99% want somewhere to go for a bip and I say'''"nope..not for you"...'do one of our training courses instead and learn how to research and access ground" The chap that may be buying it wants to move some dirt...for him it may be worth it..this is a great pushing project with loads of "potential" and still 10k is a fair price in my opinion. Will there be payable gold there? probably not...My experience is that about 80% of any pushing projects are duffers.

Onto another example.....25k for a lease that they have been pulling "an oz a week off"....bull*. In this case I know the ground and it's rubbish..and they want 25k for it...talk about an absolute disgrace. Mind you...a fool and their money is soon parted.

There is an old saying that goes something along the line of: " What is a mine....a hole in the ground with a lier in the bottom"

Please don't get me wrong...I really encourage people to take up ground...it's a great part of prospecting and your knowledge will prob go through the roof.....but don't get stung mate...there are more sharks up here than in the Indian Ocean.

If you ever want to discuss it further just give me a buzz on 0418 277 861 and I will help if I can...but I don't know everything.

pilko


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Re: buying a lease

Post by martinjsto on Wed 31 Jan 2018, 10:21 am

thanks boobook and piko for your comments. i figure the ground would be worked to death and get what your saying about buying leases, they are being sold for a reason. in this case due to other work not allowing any time to work it but as you say a lot of liers around in gold. im just doing enquiries ATM and not committed to anything. yep i have a lot to learn Piko although i have the 40e, and research for areas pretty down pat now im just warming to the idea of owning a lease for a while to make use of my excavator etc, maybe get a small blower.
i will keep your number handy mate so tou may get a call... cheers

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Re: buying a lease

Post by pilko on Wed 31 Jan 2018, 10:57 am

digger and a small blower is a great way to go Martin....in the right ground. That is the key to prospecting full stop...getting the right ground!! Another way of going is to use your prospecting skills already aquired and sample...sample...sample....find the right bit of ground for you and then work out how to get it. It may be a JV with the tenement holder...an SPL or even buying it...but you put the cards in your favour by proving/choosing the ground you want rather than taking what's on offer. Happy to help anytime.

pilko


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Re: buying a lease

Post by Flying kiwi on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 8:36 pm

Hi Martin
Some good points above. In my view buying a lease can in some cases be a viable option to work at a profit.
Firstly you need to do your due diligence on the property answer this question - how many oz are in the ground that can be profitably recovered with your gear?
Just because there is some gold there does not mean it can be profitable to work "grade is king"
Then assign a dollar figure per oz you are happy to pay that's what the lease is worth to you, do a deal get it for less than than that happy days.
The risky bit is assessing how many oz are in the ground still?? I would be naturally sceptical of anything the bloke flogging it tells you check for yourself. The more work you can put into establishing the amount of oz available the less risk to you.
Fortunately we are prospectors have the skill and equipment to go put boots on the ground and check it out.

Cheers

Tom



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Re: buying a lease

Post by pilko on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 6:46 am

Tom's post is spot on....Unless we have money to burn then the gold needs to be economic. Only fly in the ointment is that working alluvials it is impossible to grade. That's why company's like primary deposits...large tonnage and predictable.
Unfortunately...working alluvials.....it's only once the work is done that we know how much we have lost!!

pilko


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Re: buying a lease

Post by Nightjar on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 7:56 am

Martin,
Bought a 200 hectare lease ($1000.00) back in 95', was the best ever money spent. Myself and three mates didn't purchase it with intention of giving up the day job. Since that time we have tallied up 60ozs (barely covered our fuel) but most of all it has been the enjoyment and relaxation we have found in being able to sit back at our camp and enjoy the tranquility away from the rat race. (One of the gang of 4 passed in 2016. R.I.P My old mate Robbie.)
We entertained the idea of purchasing a bobcat, when we realised alluvial gold was scattered across the whole area. We shelved that idea when we talked around and listened to stories about those who were whinging about not making a quid. We went back to the original ideal life of just pursuing a hobby when we could get away from work.
Free camping, cold beer, barbecue & hot shower every night and roaring fire to keep us warm.
The upside of this is 18 of the 23 years we have had this lease, is being in a Joint Venture with various mining companies. They pay the rent & shire rates. Very Happy





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Re: buying a lease

Post by Wedgetail on Wed 07 Feb 2018, 8:07 am

Personal history lesson over 3 seasons:

Returned to "scrape n detect" four years ago
Cost of dozer $40k
Cost of leases approx $4k
Fuel and repairs $2.5k
Patches pushed = 13 on 7 tenements
Gold found directly attributable to scraping,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,


,,,,,,,,,

9 grammes.

Gold found just swinging the area, no digging = approx 5 ounces

Work it yerself!

I'm out of prospecting seriously these days and I know others that are or wish they were.

W

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Re: buying a lease

Post by hippyty on Wed 07 Feb 2018, 10:08 pm

Sounds like me at the casino $200 in the pokies zilch $50 on the poker table drinks all night and $500 in the kitty. Everything in life’s a gamble. Including getting behind the wheel! Every business has risk, manage risk you have business.

hippyty


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Re: buying a lease

Post by homer08 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 11:55 am

Hi Marty, it looks to me like Nightjar and his mates have it all.
A setup like that would do me just nicely.
Free camping, cold beer, barbecue & hot shower every night and roaring fire to keep us warm
Cheers.

homer08


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Re: buying a lease

Post by martinjsto on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 10:30 pm

thanks for all the input guys. i visited the lease last weekend detected with permission of course for a day with my son for zilch on a 1km x 1km sq lease so not interested in pursuing further. im just looking ATM getting info, I also love the freedom of just detecting with 40E or direct permission and dont want to be tied down but the lease was cheap so worth a look. on the upside we stopped off on way home to a spot i had luck on b4 and won 5g between the son and me with the boy getting 6 nice bits so a good weekend anyway.
cheers all

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Re: buying a lease

Post by Tributer on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 9:02 pm

Hi Martin, to change tact.....one way to go is to always be checking for vacant ground while detecting your way around and if you find anything that shows good potential take out a 1 2 or 3 block EL on the ground or a small lease. 2 or 3 block ELs are a good size if your want to option off to a ground hungry company and you can still qualify for the blocks by saying you will carry out the exploration work by yourself without proving your finances or expertise. Get yourself a tenement manager, don't tell even your mates about the pending EL and give it ago. (don't grab any land with open drill holes or major rehab needs because you will be asked to cap them etc).

Ambitious I know, but in the space of a couple years detecting you will detect onto a good gold spot with some potential that is vacant (or will become vacant) and on that day you can go online, apply and get your own land for a few hundred dollars. Cheers Tributer
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Re: buying a lease

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:05 am


Here's what I know about rehabbing old surface damage and drill holes etc. If the damage was done by another party, prior to you obtaining the ground, you are not liable to repair that damage. That is the responsibility of the party that did the damage under a previous title grant. If a tenement holder finds such damage on a tenement, they should take photos, GPS locations etc and report it to the Environmental Section of DMIRS.

But we need to be careful here. If you peg the ground as above, that means fresh title, then any existing damage is not down to you. But if you buy the lease from another party and it's transferred to you, then you also buy the damage - its down to you. The title to the ground may be yours but the damage is yours as well. Always go out and check any ground that you buy or you could end up with massive rehab bill for stuff you didn't do.

When lodging a Programme of Works it's a good move for some brownie points to tell DMIRS that you will make good any prior damage that you find.


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Re: buying a lease

Post by pilko on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 6:05 am

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit...
Les I wrote to enviro's about that very point....I asked if there is rehab to be done and I am preparred to do it, will they give me permisssion to do it (and of curse with me working the ground as I rehab!!) and it not to count on the footprint and tonnage.

This was exactly how it 'used to be' only 5 plus years back.....I had a government non committal response from enviros basically telling me no....all disturbance must be approved.

pilko


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Re: buying a lease

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 1:14 pm

pilko wrote:Sorry to hijack the thread a bit...
Les I wrote to enviro's about that very point....I asked if there is rehab to be done and I am preparred to do it, will they give me permisssion to do it (and of curse with me working the ground as I rehab!!) and it not to count on the footprint and tonnage.

This was exactly how it 'used to be' only 5 plus years back.....I had a government non committal response from enviros basically telling me no....all disturbance must be approved.

Hmmmm,,,,,things have changed then! I'll be making enquiries about that 'cos it's stupid idea.

W

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Re: buying a lease

Post by Flouro on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 7:23 am

Hi Pilko,

I was talking to Fred a couple of years back and he had to do a special course to get the qualifications, he had to level off, rip and then throw logs branches back over the ground after he did what he needed to get the yellow, took him years to finally get the permissions to do the patches he wanted to do

Ron

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Re: buying a lease

Post by pilko on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 10:38 am

It can easily take years and real money to get the ground and put things in place to work it......can you see why some of us 'half mad' prospectors get shirty at poachers!!...anyway...enough of that

pilko


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Re: buying a lease

Post by Flouro on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 7:45 am

Hi Pilko,

I don't see how you could get shirty at poachers if you are working on the patches, Fred has a big camper on a truck which he dumped on the patch he was working and then brought in all his machinery and worked it to death and then moved onto the next

No-one could poach his patch, if anyone rocked up he would say try over there or somewhere where he wasn't working at the time, he knowing full well that what he was chasing was out of our reach anyway

So poaching seems to be for sitters, maybe

Ron

Flouro


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Re: buying a lease

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 1:41 pm

Flouro wrote:Hi Pilko,

I don't see how you could get shirty at poachers if you are working on the patches, Fred has a big camper on a truck which he dumped on the patch he was working and then brought in all his machinery and worked it to death and then moved onto the next

No-one could poach his patch, if anyone rocked up he would say try over there or somewhere where he wasn't working at the time, he knowing full well that what he was chasing was out of our reach anyway

So poaching seems to be for sitters, maybe

Ron

,,,,and what was Fred doing about the illegals that were raping his other leases in a far away spot that he couldn't watch? Pretty poor attitude when people are taking food off a prospectors table by taking the gold on which he relies so he can eat. Why don't they just burgle his house or is that too hard 'cos he may be in it when they get there?

I always had a Golden Rule that was immutable back in the old days - "Never ever, ever take gold off the small guy's ground but mining companies were fair game". That's all changed now as companies often let us on their ground whilst people that call themselves prospectors rape a small guy's ground until there's nothing left. No honour in the bush any more? Back in the day, thieves would get hung from a tree for stealing from a fellow prospector. Now stealing is a sport. Bloody disgraceful behaviour.


Last edited by Wedgetail on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: buying a lease

Post by Flouro on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

Hi Wedgetail,

I agree with you there, those soughts need to be caught and the book thrown at them, plain thievery and deserve all they get

I noticed Fred now has an offsider of soughts to look after his interests it's definetly a way of the times sad but true

Cheers,Ron

Flouro


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