40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

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40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by linlara on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:09 pm

Topic from EGPA (APLA) September meeting regarding 40E application being trumped by tenements rights.
Clarification is needed here as a tenement holder of an EL could sell alluvial rights to a mate for a buck affectively keeping everybody out even with a 40E unless overridden by DMP.
Could someone give a better explanation of what's happening here as it's hard enough to find ground without any other obstaclesyy

linlara


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 08 Oct 2017, 8:55 am

Sorry about the slow reply. I don't get on forums much as I don't have the time. But as APLA President, I feel I should sort this out.

This year I have had 3 of these cases and basically the mining company do WTH it likes with "alluvial rights" but that makes no difference whatsoever to the rights of the Sect 40e permit holder. The Mining Act and The Mining Regulations stipulate that a Sect 40e permit is a permit between the The Mines Dept (now known as DMIRS) and the permit holder i.e you! That agreement cannot be stopped, cancelled or circumvented by a commercial contract between the company and a third party. Basically, the old expression holds true here – “You cannot contract out of the law”.

Mining Law is built on the basis that “all minerals and metals in the ground are the property of the Crown”. As such it is “the Crown” that has the say regarding who can remove those minerals and metals. It is not up to any company to override that as that is the law. So, a Sect 40e permit application is a contract between you and DMIRS (the Mines Dept). It is not an application to the company via DMIRS. i.e the company can’t do a thing about it – with one exception as below:

The company or better to say “the holder of the Exploration Licence” can only stipulate a condition that you must not come within 100 mtrs of any their operations such as drilling or earthmoving etc. That’s all they can do to keep you off.
I’ve written to three EL holders and told them that what they are doing by adopting this “alluivial rights strategy” is tantamount to harassment under the terms of the Ming Act and they can be prosecuted if they persist. But it’s also pointless as an “alluvial rights” contract would carry no weight in either a Civil Court or the court of The Mining Warden.

If you are a member of APLA, I can write the letter for you and see that it gets there. Other than that just tell them they are wrong and you are going on the EL anyway. Any subsequent interference or confrontation is an offence under the Mining Act.

If you don’t want to join APLA then call Jeff Hayles in the Kalgoorlie DMIRS office to get the same reply that I’ve written here. PM me with your email address for any further help – but bear in mind that I don’t get on here much these days,,,,,,APLA keeps me to busy!

HTH

W (APLA President)

_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by linlara on Sun 08 Oct 2017, 11:44 am

Hi WEDGETAIL
Many thanks for clarifying this matter for myself and others
Linlara Very Happy
PS I am a member of APLA for this reason

linlara


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by araratgold on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 2:50 pm

Thanks for your explanation Les.
It would seem that the Pastoralists and some mining companies are getting more militant, and attempt to use bully boy tactics to bluff you into buggering off !
It pays to be members of APLA, to know your rights, and to have the DMIRS on speed dial when confronted with such a situation !

Rick
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araratgold


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Viper on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 4:16 pm

Beware... BIO SECURITY .... is coming and there is nought we can do to stop it......

Live the life while we can.......
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Viper


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 6:15 pm

The Bio-Diversity Act is already law in WA. I'm not sure if it's a Federal Act or a State Act - I must check that. However, that's not quite the same as Bio-Security but it's bloody close enough to be a consideration.

Sitting on various committees and meetings as APLA does, we see that here in WA mining and prospecting is "protected" to some extent. There are many that will disagree with that statement. Most of these legislated "threats" are already with us and yet prospecting continues as does small scale mining. But despite those appearances, WA MUST keep mining open. Without it we have little to sustain us and we'll end up being a medicant state like Tasmania.

However, APLA must be vigilant that the "green laws" don't overtake us in the dead of night and we then end up like the rest of Australia with nowhere left to prospect and mine.

"From my cold dead hand,,,,," Evil or Very Mad

W

_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by mada on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 10:13 pm

Hi wedgetail, so before it gets any further down the track and start to lose the ability to prospect and mine. Do we as APLA have enough members to form a party and take it to the next level?? ..Just throwing it out there. What a Face affraid

What I mean by that is because we pay for the privilege to prospect and mine, we are stakeholders which does carry a bit of weight.

mada


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by salt-d on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:55 pm

Thanks for the information Wedgetail
I'm a member of APLA and appreciate the work those involved in it do.
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salt-d


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Sat 28 Oct 2017, 8:56 am

Mada,

Sorry I’ve been a bit slow with a reply but can’t do everything at once and some stuff tends to “fall off the end of the desk” occasionally.

There are minority parties that carry some weight and they help us a lot. Those that have helped us are the Greens, (surprisingly enough), the State Nationals and Shooters n Fishers. These pollies support the underdogs such as us and Robin Chapple of the Greens has been invaluable with his knowledge of mining and prospecting. So, we’re not without political mates and hence, political influence. We use the influence as much as we can because often it’s the only way to make bureaucrats take notice.

Personally, I’m too busy with APLA to be forming a political party, but I can see many benefits if it did happen. Plus, personally, I don’t wanna be referred to as “a politician”!! Paahh, Yukkk!  However, as long as APLA exists, we will be recognised as a “public force” and one with members that vote. APLA has proven that we can stop legislation if we don’t like it. So, I cannot see the day when detecting and prospecting will be banned. But the overrider to that is that bodies such as APLA must stay in the fight and keep our profile very visible. We do this with the many govt dept meetings we have and the representation we provide when prospectors have access and legal problems such as Native Title etc. Simply put – “we gotta stay in the game if we wanna get a few wins”. But we’ll never win ‘em all. Life isn't like that eh! Rolling Eyes

You mention “stakeholders” and these days it’s a very popular word in government circles these days as is the dreaded, “consultation” word. I reckon this all came about as consequence of two instances where the WA State Government’s bureaucrats copped a hiding over the Roe 8 decision and the Mining Legislation Amendment Bill (MLAB2015). In both instances, the EPA and the Mines Dept (DMIRS) were pilloried over the absence of “consultation with stakeholders”. The failure to “consult” cost the State Govt over 2 million bucks just for the MLAB 2015 failure to pass into law. God only knows what it cost the EPA for Roe 8.  Roe 8 was chucked out, MLAB 2015 was stopped in The Upper House of WA Parliament and a thorough overhaul of the EPA methods was ordered. That overhaul filtered down through all govt depts and as a result depts such as DMIRS etc must seek comments from us prospectors and miners when doing anything. Otherwise it can get thrown out in Parliament or we go to the media to make our case. I can see a big difference in the way we are treated these days. But that doesn’t mean we take it for granted. It means we keep up the fight and never let ‘em grind us down.

Sorry if this seems like a rant. It isn’t, but is lengthy!

_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Bignuggs on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 5:15 pm

Thought I'd just bump this up. The detecting season and cooler weather is getting close and sooner the better.
Keep up to date with the Law and our rights and don't let the bastards tell you otherwise.
and most of all, join APLA, do the right thing and don't let your actions stuff it for everyone else
Cheers

_________________
Life is what you make it, always has been, always will be.
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Bignuggs
Forum Admin


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 7:59 pm

Cliff,

Thanks for bumping this up. As you say, the new season is nearly upon us. In my position I see a lot of what's going on, where the pressure points are coming from and where the problems are likely to happen.

With that in mind, I see the Leonora area presenting threats and confrontations from the Minara Pastoral Corporation operated out of Nambi Station but covering all the ground on Nambi, Minara, Glenorn and Yundamindera stations. They are on the warpath towards prospectors. So be aware of your rights and if you have any issues then APLA members know how to contact me,

The other that I see are anywhere on stations around Mt Ida, Riverina, Menzies etc. The stations are all owned by Zenith Australia Pty Ltd and they have had problems with damage to tracks, wells, mining operations. They are new to the pastoral game but are now on the warpath with prospectors. Any probs, then members can ring APLA. I have already had "discussions" with Zenith so this season is gonna be interesting.

EVERYBODY - please carry your APLA membership card with you and produce at all times when confronted. Call me if you're having issues. Don't back down if you feel you're being bluffed.

Find heaps and spend it at the pub!

W

_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Jonathan Porter on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 4:18 am

Good on you Les, proud to be an APLA member.

JP

Jonathan Porter


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by pilko on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 6:49 am

There is some very good prospective ground on Nambi station...mostly E's which means you can take out your 40'e's....might be interesting if several hundred prospectors go and say g'day.....just let's them know we are around hey.

pilko


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Nightjar on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 7:58 am

Your untiring efforts will be appreciated for the coming generations Les.
Another proud APLA member.


_________________
Good luck & safe travels
Peter




     
"Aging seems to be the only available way to live a long life."

Nightjar


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 11:13 am

Jonathan Porter wrote:Good on you Les, proud to be an APLA member.

JP

Really? You are!!!?? Unless you joined only this year in January 2018, or under another name, I can't see your name on the members' listing. I have access to all members details and your name or anything like it isn't there.

Are you sure you joined? We'd be happy to have the support. Drop me a PM if you're having probs getting onboard.

W

_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Wedgetail on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 11:34 am

If you get a letter from a company called Zenith Australia, then call me. If you get hassle from this organisation, then call me. The letter is aimed primarily at leaseholders and lease applicants and the company has pastoral leases in the Mt Ida, Riverina, Perrinvale areas, west of Menzies. I have some sympathy for them 'cos they do have some issues but their attitude of blaming ALL prospectors is not the way to fix them. Stand your ground, show 'em your APLA membership card and get in touch with me. Use the website to drop me line or PM me on here. I am not sure I wanna put my phone number on here but you can get an APLA number from the APLA website and they'll get in touch with me. I don't go bush much anymore.

I wish I could put the letter on here but it's seems more difficult than it once was.

Similarly, any hassle from Minara, Glenorn, Nambi or Yundamindera - call me with names, dates, times and what happened. If we start taking confrontation and harrassment from these people, it will become "common practice". It is very common for "common practice" to become "accepted practice", after which it can quickly become law. Don't allow it to happen to you.

I've made 'em back down before and I'll do it again.

SS

W


_________________
"It took me 30 years to get rich quick" - Mark Creasy

Wedgetail


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by AussieAU on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 1:33 pm

keep up the good work Les.

_________________
AussieAU

---------------
Wouldn't it be nice!

AussieAU


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Dozer on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 6:36 pm

I have had a whole day to think about this while I drove around and tended gensets and pumps, so this is what I have come up with.
Firstly I recommend that each and every one of us use a dashcam in our vehicles. it will provide a record of any harassment from pastoralists who love cutting off vehicles, dive bombing with their choppers and planes etc. It also is a valuable aid in keeping an accurate record of any pegging that you do which could be of value in any objections.
I also have a notebook with me most of the time. Any altercations with pastoralists or other tenement holders should be noted down with the essentials of who, what , when and where along with a brief account of the incident.
Now both of these are only useful if you do something about it. Moaning in the pub or on forums like this is not going to get anything changed. If you are threatened, abused or generally harassed while going about your legal business, go to the cops and report it. Also report it to the Mines Dept and while you are on a roll report it to APLA as well. Whoever you complain to,wherever possible use an email to either report the complaint or acknowledge that you have lodged a complaint. Perhaps LES and the APLA team can get a complaint email set up within APLA's website as well. The reason for this is to ensure that your complaint has a "cc" or two on it. Cos and DMP then cannot pretend that it was never sent, mislaid or any of the other excuses for inaction.
Perhaps LES and the APLA team could produce a template for such complaints and have it available on the APLA website.
I get annoyed with the tourist types who every year complain at the camp kitchen in Leo's caravan park,but won't front up and register a complaint with the above.
The local cops number here in LEO is 08 9037 6100.
The DMP number is 08 9037 7546
With Les and the APLA team getting things happening it is our job to support them in any way possible and that includes giving them all the relevat information to act upon.
If all the complaints start to stack up then the DMP or the cops will have to get involved.
These are your rights under the Mining Act that are being threatened and as Les says above
"If we start taking confrontation and harrassment from these people, it will become "common practice". It is very common for "common practice" to become "accepted practice", after which it can quickly become law. Don't allow it to happen to you. "
I do not seem to have any of the problems that others do, no doubt I will in time be confronted but the confrontee will not find me an easy target. I know my rights and responsibilities, I know where I am on the ground and I will stand up for my rights, plus I detest bullies and most of the issues appear to have that element involved.

LES and the APLA team have gone into bat for all of us over these matters and others and it is appreciated.
Thanks Guys

Dozer


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by mada on Fri 09 Feb 2018, 11:02 pm

Some great information and advise there guys much appreciated. All is taken on board and will be stored in the memory bank.

Great work to all. fhsdfg fhsdfg fhsdfg fhsdfg

mada


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by pilko on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 12:22 am

Good post Dozer.....I liked your line....

"With Les and the APLA team getting things happening it is our job to support them in any way possible and that includes giving them all the relevat information to act upon"

Just about everyone I come across detecting for a hobby, don't want to worry about all these things...it's all about 'the sunsets'...hell...I don't want to worry about these things as surely this country is big enough for all?/? But as I have said before...if your not prepared to stand up and go to the police then take up fishing. It's a real shame these bullies are out there and frankly I have never known a time like it....but they are there and they are a real problem that needs dealing with.

I stongly support the dashcam as well.

pilko


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Re: 40E APPLICATION TRUMPED

Post by Jonathan Porter on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 6:59 am

Wedgetail wrote:
Jonathan Porter wrote:Good on you Les, proud to be an APLA member.

JP

Really? You are!!!?? Unless you joined only this year in January 2018, or under another name, I can't see your name on the members' listing. I have access to all members details and your name or anything like it isn't there.

Are you sure you joined? We'd be happy to have the support. Drop me a PM if you're having probs getting onboard.

W

Les, I've sent you a PM.

Jonathan Porter


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