What's New

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What's New

Post by Bignuggs on Sat 03 Jan 2015, 12:34 pm

Can someone remember when diesel was cheaper than petrol ? It must have been back in the old timers days Razz
When you take into consideration, they say it is cheaper to produce diesel, then why does it cost more ?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/25892751/diesel-pumps-up-the-profits/

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Re: What's New

Post by Guest on Sat 03 Jan 2015, 12:43 pm

I am sure the greens voted in a higher excise tax or something of that nature..

so why is coke dearer than petrol?

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oneday

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Re: What's New

Post by martinjsto on Sat 03 Jan 2015, 1:45 pm

gees bottled water is dearer than petrol. i can remember diesel being cheaper, a long time ago b4 i was driving thats for sure. yep blame the greens, i can remember a statement made by one of their top members something along the lines of "we are confident the australian people wont mind paying a few extra cents for a cleaner planet" they didnt ask me.

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Re: What's New

Post by Nightjar on Sat 03 Jan 2015, 2:13 pm


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Re: What's New

Post by Banjo on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 8:16 am

i read somewhere once that our diesel price is due to Indonesia being one of the biggest users of diesel, the philosophy is they can easily go park their tankers off Indonesia and get the higher price so that's what we pay.
Vague memory but it might of been Wedgetail relating this on another forum ?

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Re: What's New

Post by Flying kiwi on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 8:33 am

From memory petrol in Bali is around 60c litre how's that work??

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Re: What's New

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 8:42 am

Flying kiwi wrote:From memory petrol in Bali is around 60c litre how's that work??

You'd have to take into account the incomes of the population and the high use of fuel to consider that. First, there's probably no tax on fuel, next Indonesia is very cheap labour cost so finding oil, processing it to make fuel and selling it are cheap, low overheads, next Indonesia has a lot of its own oil fields.

If a govt doesn't keep the cost of fuel and hence the cost of goods, food and transport down then it risks instability in the country. Australia is seen by our politicians as a country that "can afford to pay" which leads me to,,,,,,,,,,,,,the next bit.

We have none of the above qualities that Indonesia enjoys, except John Howard's "Import Fuel Parity Pricing" and Customs and Excise to thank for "Fuel Excise Tax".

High petrol prices, Nah. Think how much an Australian earns and how much we pay for fuel and then compare those answers with Indonesians.

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Re: What's New

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 8:53 am

Banjo wrote:i read somewhere once that our diesel price is due to Indonesia being one of the biggest users of diesel, the philosophy is they can easily go park their tankers off Indonesia and get the higher price so that's what we pay.
Vague memory but it might of been Wedgetail relating this on another forum ?

Yep - that's correct. SE Asia is a big user of diesel fuel and oil companies use the reverse of John Howards "Import Fuel Parity Pricing" mechanism. Because SE Asia uses far more diesel than we do as a country, oil companies here can sell all that they can manufacture here, to the Singapore Spot Market - all and more if they could squeeze more diesel out of a barrel of crude oil. So we end paying whatever wholesale price the oil companies can sell for in Singapore. Add to that wholesale price - retail overheads, tax and profit margin and you have "the Australian price".

Diesel that's imported from places such as Singapore merely charge the "going market price" over here in Australia,,,,,,,,,which is a reflection of what they can sell it for in Singapore!! Simple eh! Round and round we go!

Singapore is the SE Asia equivalent of Rotterdam for Europe and Texas for The Americas. It's an international clearing house for oil products,,,,,,,,,and more.

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Re: What's New

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 9:02 am


As for this one, this is an example of profiteering and/or competition from the retailer. The fuel supplies to the Goldfields all arrive there by marine tankers into Albany but more so, Esperance. So there is no oil company pricing mechanism involved here in this situation. It all comes off the boat at the same price - if it comes from the local refinery at BP Kwinana. Fuel from Singapore may have the same price "landed" or a few cents either way. But not to the outrageous differential shown in the article from NJ.

But it's more than likely that Puma gets it fuel from Singapore whereas the BP, Caltex, Shell stations in Kal will get theirs from BP Kwinana. That's part of a nationwide "sharing" deal between the majors. Puma, Eagle, Liberty, Gull mostly get fuels from Singapore - often cheaper than Kwinana but not by much.

Blame the retailer for this one I reckon.

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Re: What's New

Post by Banjo on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 9:34 am

Wedgetail, can you confirm/deny if Port Hedland is the drop off point for the Pilbara ?

The prices here remain constantly high whilst i've heard area's like Broome are cheaper for unleaded, not sure how that works considering Broome is further up ?



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Re: What's New

Post by boobook on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 10:19 am

Not that long ago the catchcry was "peak oil", the globe was running out at such a rate that, as Hanrahan said "we'll all be rooned".

Now it seems that not so new methods are extracting oil from places hitherto deemed not viable.
In the Blue Mountains W of Sydney there are vast resources of oil bearing shale all sitting quietly on the back burner.
And those cunning little bacteria are still producing it kilometres beneath the crust.

It would be a wonderful experience to become a pollie and get the real drift on what goes on.
But then if that happened my kids would, and rightly, disown me.
mike l
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Re: What's New

Post by Nightjar on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 10:40 am

Wedgetail wrote:
As for this one, this is an example of profiteering and/or competition from the retailer.

Spot on! Living in Rockingham only a few kilometres from the BP Refinery and traditionally cost of fuel, especially diesel, is generally higher than the Northern & Eastern suburbs even though their delivery costs must be greater.
Some years ago the Rockingham dealers were accused of running a cartel which was strongly denied but there wasn't an explanation why fuel costs were above the average.
Example of this was when a reduction of 4 cents was being promoted from midnight. Called into a BP servo on the way home from nightshift to query why they hadn't reduced their prices.
The explanation I thought was quite acceptable. "After we sell the fuel we bought at the old price we will apply the reduction."
Move forward several months and again on nightshift when I heard the radio announcement that fuel was increasing at midnight by 5 cents.
Driving home, same time same servo had the new price with the extra 5 cents already displayed.
Drove in and questioned the proprietor why he didn't sell the fuel he bought at the cheaper price before applying the increase.
Much waving of arms and expletives about how he was barely making a living. blah blah blah.Mad
Can't understand why we always drive past now and fill up at competition servo. Laughing

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Re: What's New

Post by Guest on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 10:53 am

still a $1.60 in ktown--we must be getting our fuel from inland Australia and processing it through straws on the way back..

the best one is GAS-LPbloodyG.
We are the largest producer of gas in Australia yet the flaming stuff costs $1.23 per litre....go figure..I remember when I had a farm I made up a special nozzle and use to take my 70lt gas bottle to the servo and fill it up and bring back home for the stove and cooking--never blew up once, yet it was half the price of filling up the bottle with LNG--bugger em..

If I liked horses I'd b driven one but that will never happen whilst I own a riffle.

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Re: What's New

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 04 Jan 2015, 2:35 pm

Banjo wrote:Wedgetail, can you confirm/deny if Port Hedland is the drop off point for the Pilbara ?

The prices here remain constantly high whilst i've heard area's like Broome are cheaper for unleaded, not sure how that works considering Broome is further up ?



From memory, and it was a few years ago, Port Hedland is the port of import. Broome does not have a deep water jetty or offloading infrastructure. Port Hedland loads ore carriers and they require about 17 to 20 mtrs draught depth when loaded. BP coastal tamkers "bounce" on the sand bottom when going over the Parmelia Bank in Cockburn Sound at 13 mtrs. I can't think of another port in the NW of WA that enough draught for a coastal tanker - other than Woodside's LNG jetty at KTA but that's a private jetty. So it's gotta be Port Hedland.

Don't ask me how the ex-import port pricing works as it never makes any sense to me.

PS - last time I did the Gibb River Rd, 8 years ago, diesel was $2.10 a litre!

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Re: What's New

Post by Banjo on Mon 05 Jan 2015, 1:50 am

Cheers Wedgetail.

Certainly some strange pricing going on in the different area's, the gas in K town is a perfect example Shocked

I don't mind paying the extra if it is justified with transport costs but if they are colluding and cashing in at point of drop that's another story.

The fuel prices never budge here so that's got to say something i suppose.

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Re: What's New

Post by Wedgetail on Mon 05 Jan 2015, 1:59 am

Banjo wrote:Cheers Wedgetail.

Certainly some strange pricing going on in the different area's, the gas in K town is a perfect example Shocked

I don't mind paying the extra if it is justified with transport costs but if they are colluding and cashing in at point of drop that's another story.

The fuel prices never budge here so that's got to say something i suppose.

I had a think last night about Broome, as it as years ago when I was in the game. Research this morning reveals Broome does have fuel offloading infrastructure. So both Hedland ad Broome would be the import ports ex-Kwinana. I don't know about ex-Singapore.

Either way and whatever, I can never work out exactly how they calculate prices at the pump. Price gouging seems to be only thing I can suggest.

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Re: What's New

Post by Bignuggs on Mon 05 Jan 2015, 2:55 am

If my memory is holding up, fuel was delivered direct to Dampier but that was back in the 1980's. It didn't come from Hedland.
There used to be refinery sized storage tanks on the north side of the town with the Shell emblem painted on them.
Ray, are they still there ?
and I remember back in 1981/82 paying about 75 cents a litre for petrol from the Shell dealer in the LIA. The price of fuel was always talked about and used to annoy the hell out of people as it came direct, not from the Kwinana refinery.  We always paid at least double the Perth price.  


The following prices are from the,
Submission to draft National Road Safety Strategy 2011-2020
Perth per litre petrol prices:
1991 - 67.4c
1992 - 68.3c - helmet law introduced
1993 - 67.9c
1994 - 68.7c
1995 - 73.2c
1996 - 73.7c
1997 - 73.8c
1998 - 70.0c
1999 - 72.4c
2000 - 88.6c


It's a pity they didn't go back further with the years but there is a photo on the internet taken in 1980 showing a Shell garage on Stirling Highway in Claremont selling petrol at 32.2 cents a litre.

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Re: What's New

Post by Guest on Mon 05 Jan 2015, 4:00 am

the tanks are still there but i think that Rio has exclusivity on all the diesel and unleaded that comes in..most of our fuel is trucked down from hedland--BP--Caltex--and still $1.60 a litre.

no wonder there are murderers out there.

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