Land Banking---use it or loose it

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Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2014, 4:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

I reckon its about time that the Minister is approached to get his act into gear and open up country that makes it an offense to prospect on..

If I joined the exectitive of APLA I wouldn't last till the end of the night if this rule was pursued by me....

Exploration companies are generally more than happy for us to prospect on with a couple of pre cautionary clauses.

Yet Mining companies who continually block prospectors from access to land and yet they do absolutely nothing with there leases apart from pay rates and make up expenditure is in my opinion a travesty of a prospectors right.

No one should be allowed to have 50-400 leases and do nothing with those leases apart from maybe oneday selling them on.

maybe its about time that the minister errs in favour of prospectors that want to take the matter to the wardens court to make companies and individuals more accountable for the need to land bank.

If there is no direct deduction out of their account/bank records as to expenditure then something is wrong..

and u cant tell me that coz a prospector goes there on holidays to a lease it can be a direct expenditure coz one can legally argue that the prospector on holidays was generating income although be it a paper trail...

There wouldn't b 1 prospector who hasn't been knocked back coz of land banking.

Maybe a change is as good as a holiday

and while I'm at it they can get rid of shire rates on leases as well--that would have to b the biggest form of injustice and a misconceived tax I have ever come across. The pastorialist pay the tax why do shires double dip
. Fair dimkum.

anyhow I thought I'd throw it out there.

regards
oneday

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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 28 Dec 2014, 7:56 pm

Ray,

It "SO" because not enough people challenge the system. But if these people don't know the Act then they won't have a snowball in Karratha's chance of challenging the system through The Warden's Court. I'll be the first to admit the "system" is biased in favour of land-holding leaseholder of all descriptions. But the land-holders pay the rent and rates to the WA govt. So who do you reckon gets the gold and who gets the shaft?

As for expenditure, I can truthfully claim $150 bucks an hour using a dozer, plus $800 bucks a day for two of us using detectors. Plus food, oil, diesel and filters etc. Then there's rates and rent and AHS fees. It's that simple and I'm telling no porkies when I claim all that. You know this Ray. So why do I have to put up with freeloaders coming on my tenements and taking my gold when there's a good method of gaining access legally - ask or get a Sect 40e. APLA got all these changes through the Act years ago. If we want more than that then people can fill their boots by joining APLA or making their representations to the Mines Minister. Easy eh! I wish!

I agree that mining companies do take liberties with all of this but I'm getting a bit fed up with detector operators calling us all arseholes and not differentiating between the companies and the small leaseholder. It is nigh on impossible for the govt to change the Act so that it can do the differentiation. If someone can find an answer, well speak up, because the more detector operators slag all leaseholders without making the differences very clear, then the more the small leaseholders will get their backs up. There goes your permission right there.

I've reached the stage where I'm considering prosecutions. I've had several opportunities last season, but I went all "girly" at the last minute, even when a bloke showed me an 27 grammer that he got from my lease, without having permission to be there!! How effin' stupid am I??

Wedgetail


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Nightjar on Sun 28 Dec 2014, 9:05 pm

Bilbo, Good luck with your tag along tours in 2015, you got all your permissions in order for your groups? Laughing






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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Sun 28 Dec 2014, 10:00 pm

Nightjar wrote:Bilbo, Good luck with your tag along tours in 2015, you got all your permissions in order for your groups? Laughing






Not worth an answer.

Wedgetail


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 7:26 am

I've got a fresh copy of the MINING ACT so it should only take a few hours to re-read the 300 odd pages.

Just remain focus and something may eventuate.

I think one path that is clear to me and that is to single out mining companies/resource company's that don't give anyone permission without a valid excuse. This goes for individuals that simply land bank and are only interested in selling out.

I think we can navigate around the pitfalls to make it a more open playing field.

Its funny how sometimes communication lets us all down and we loose entitlement.

regards
oneday


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 7:47 am

Good luck with it Ray, and I mean that. It's taken me 30 years to not just understand some of the text but also to understand how legal eagles can and do use it. It's often the case where it's not what the Act says, but what the Act doesn't say. That's a trick that needs to be learned. BTW - you need to read not just the Mining Act but also the Mining Regulations which are an additional "300 pages".

Even now, there's whole sections that I don't read because they don't apply to me. Plus I have only so many years left on the planet and I have lawns to mow!

It's little wonder that people can't be bothered and consequently don't understand how we reached the position we are in today. It's also understandable how people make sweeping statements that simply aren't based in law. It's not the fault of leaseholders that understand & use the Act when it's there in black and white. However, it is the fault of others that don't make the effort to read it or understand it and then start bitching about it. It's a law, a statute, that has rules just like the Criminal Code or the Traffic Act etc. Break them and you're in bother.

If changes are required, join APLA or make your own submission. The results will disappoint even the most enthusiastic detector operator.

Sit in on one or two DMP meetings and you'll witness how it all works. The truth will shock you but it will also show you how bloody lucky prospectors are to even be here. Our existence is always tenuous and companies would love to get rid of our concessions contained in the Mining Act.


Wedgetail


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 9:36 am

know were u r comin from

I tried to get the 40e lifted another 2 months giving us a total of 5 months.

Minus the couple of weeks it takes to process then u have a total of 4 and a half weeks in the paddock.

just got my regos and its now $700 just to drive me car on dirt roads..

regards
oneday

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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 4:38 pm

oneday wrote:know were u r comin from

I tried to get the 40e lifted another 2 months giving us a total of 5 months.

Minus the couple of weeks it takes to process then u have a total of 4 and a half weeks in the paddock.

just got my regos and its now $700 just to drive me car on dirt roads..

regards
oneday

Ray,

Where dya get the figure of "4 and a half weeks in the paddock" from? Sect 40e last for 3 months following the 21 day waiting period?? That's a full 3 months in the paddock.

Wedgetail


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 6:38 pm

yeah u r right wedgetail--sorry--too much on my small brain at the moment--

had to work today as well.

but don't u think the 3 week wait is a load of anguish considering everyone is hooked up to computers these days and its not as if the mines dept is over run with applications that would put a spanner in the works..

but I'm sure the 21 days or there about comes of the 3 months permit.
I could be wrong..

regards
oneday


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by driller on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 7:48 pm

DMP says " expires in 3 months from date of issue" which would include the 21 day waiting period

Driller.

driller


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 10:43 am

Geezuz I love being a shite stirring bastard.
I got ya's talking about it didn't I   Very Happy
And we do need good info.
So what can I start next   Razz  have ya's got any suggestions     and don't be rude  

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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by driller on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 11:53 am

Tengraph "scraping"

Driller

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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 2:18 pm

driller wrote:Tengraph "scraping"

Driller

Driller,

You may have read a report about "screen scraping" in the last APLA Newsletter?? In that article there's comment from Ivor Roberts, the Director of Mineral Titles in the DMP. Those comments more less say, "Oh dear, this contravenes our Terms of Service and we must do something about it"

Trust me. That is a load of crocodile tears & bollocks. I and others questioned the DMP 4 years ago about this and how leases can be dropped one day prior to expiry only to be pegged again 3/4 of an hour later, the same day. They admitted that companies were not only acting in collusion by using "one dollar holding companies" but the use of screen scraping was rife throughout the industry. But here's the clincher, from the DMP 4 years ago remember",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Quote, " We are powerless to stop it"!!

Get the picture? Nothing's been done about it for years. I doubt anything will be done this time either.

Wedgetail


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Re: Land Banking---use it or loose it

Post by Wedgetail on Tue 30 Dec 2014, 2:43 pm

driller wrote:DMP says " expires in 3 months from date of issue" which would include the 21 day waiting period

Driller.

Driller and Ray,

The 3 week period is included according to the DMP at Leonora. But for Ray, in the past there was always a principle that all matters involving correspondence on an issue has to be done by post and not email. So when we consider that it will take say two days to sort out the Sect 40e application in the DMP, write and post a letter to the EL holder, - 4 business days from Leonora to Perth is normal, then allow time for that EL holder to contact the Sect 40e applicant regarding any objections or directions he may have - another 4 business days , there's two weeks gone right there, maybe getting on for three even,,,,,,,,,,,,, then for the EL holder to let the DMP know if there's a problem,,,,,,,,

So it's easy to see that if the EL holder has any issues and he wishes to use his right under the Act to spell out those issues, then the 3 week period is ONLY JUST enough time for the EL holder to protect his asset.

However, the DMP is slowly moving to "all electronic" comms and the DMP Environmental Section has been the "trial horse" for this. They are 100% digital - but the system does work. The rest of the DMP will slowly change help when funds become available and when that happens God help those that are PC illiterate. The MRF was testimony to what's coming down the pipe.

PS - try putting up with our traditional owners objecting to a grant of an EL, AFTER you've already signed a Heritage Agreement,,,,,,,,,and you know for a fact from mates in the area that the same tribes are up with detectors (and even buckets) taking the gold!! Now I'm really p*ssed off. Don't talk to me about Sect 40e, I've got enough problems with the Aboriginal Heritage Act and Native Title. The whole bloody lot should be thrown down the can AFAIC.

PPS - the buckets are being panned apparently and they're getting good fines!! They'd be getting lead if was allowed on my own lease!! jkihyig

Wedgetail


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