poisons act--HF Acid.

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poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 3:06 pm

well they are making me jump through hoops and loops and a bit of paper work to go with my
application but hey I might have a chance considering I worked as a Lab technician for 8 years with a mining company.

i only want 10% HF so will see if I get a poisons permit.---$360 for a 3 year permit..

I remember a few years ago we were using the stuff branded as RUSTIBAN--

yep i am aware of its dangers so everything will be in place prior to having to use the stuff.

will see what eventuates after the new year.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by CrazyPete on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 3:29 pm

Ray, why dont ya just get some Ali-Brite from the car part joints it's 10% HF
and no BS permit needed, made by Septone and available in 10 litre drums too.



Pete Cool

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by martinjsto on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 3:34 pm

yep be carefull. Very Happy

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 4:07 pm

hi pete
the product u have is 1% HF..I have 60 litres of that cleaning fluid already in the name of TRUCK KING..same same.

to get 10% u have to have a permit to purchase and to house it..
U can only buy the stuff i'm after from a chemical manufacturer..

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by koeh on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 8:02 pm

I started the process to get my poisons license, they want safety showers and all sorts of things so I ended up giving up in the end, although I did score some heavy duty aluminium cleaner from a mate which is 10% HF and 30% H2S04 which does eat quartz away took a couple of weeks to get a golf ball size rock down to the few gram nugget that was in it, from memory calcium gulconate was about $100-150 a tube

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by mulgadansa on Fri 19 Dec 2014, 8:27 pm

I can't remember the chemistry, it was 30 years ago, but I thought hydroflouric and H2so4 made aqua regia, which actually dissolves gold into an unrecoverable form?

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by CrazyPete on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 5:00 am

http://www.septone.com.au/msds/ATA1.htm


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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 5:17 am

hi pete,
trust me theres only 1% HF in solution. if u read the line--
Information and Composition it tells u exactly how much is in it-- (.98% w/v)--The label can say 0-10% coz that's there way of covering there ass if they botch a batch up.

Under WA law u need a permit to buy and or distribute HF.

not everything u read is relevant.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by AussieAU on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 6:13 am

CrazyPete wrote:http://www.septone.com.au/msds/ATA1.htm


Pete you could also say its 100% water by the first line where it states 60-100%

Any decent size specie will take months in Ali-brite to disolve the quartz it does work but slow

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by thedigger on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 6:59 am

One thing that would help when cleaning gold,is to first boil it in hydrochloric acid,this will remove a lot of the iron stone,which will weaken the HF acid,so get yourself a pyrex pot from the opp shop and a hot plate,and you will find that the gold will be cleaned quicker.
I also heat the gold to a dull colour and drop in to the acid first.

Regards Frank

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by koeh on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 7:41 am

mulgadansa wrote:I can't remember the chemistry, it was 30 years ago, but I thought hydroflouric and H2so4 made aqua regia, which actually dissolves gold into an unrecoverable form?


From memory it is nitric acid and Hydrochloric that makes Aqua Regia,it is still recoverable in aqua Regia it just dissolves it into a soluble solution,
That is how some of the Klingons in ww2 stored their gold dissolved it to a liquid so when the Gestapo came to take their gold/ possessions they could not find it and then recovered it later from the solution.

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by mulgadansa on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 8:14 am

Spot on Koeh
"Aqua regia (Latin and Ancient Italian, lit. "royal water"), aqua regis (Latin, lit. "king's water"), or nitro-hydrochloric acid is a highly corrosive mixture of acids, a fuming yellow or red solution. The mixture is formed by freshly mixing concentrated nitric acid and hydrochloric acid,[1] optimally in a volume ratio of 1:3. It was named so because it can dissolve the noble metals, gold and platinum. However, titanium, iridium, ruthenium, tantalum, niobium, hafnium, osmium, rhodium and tungsten are capable of withstanding its corrosive properties.[2]"

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by thedigger on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 9:09 am

You can dissolve gold by boiling in sodium hypochlorite

Regards Frank

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Qld Sandy on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 11:08 am

BOC have a Stainless Steel Pickling Solution (part number 1117/42) which is used to clean discolouration and burn scale from stainless welds as far as I know. It contains HF at 50 grams/litre (Hydroflouric acid 5%), HNO3 at 300g/l (Nitric acid 30%), and the balance is water. It is slow, but much faster than Alibrite, available over the counter and I seem to recall the 5 litre plastic bottle size was about $80.00. Cheers.

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Sat 20 Dec 2014, 12:04 pm

ITS hard enough trying to find it let alone have it evaporate in front of me.. A;QSCK lol!

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 9:25 am

Rang BOC Ktown yesterday and now u need a permit to buy the stainless pickling jel ---so application has gone in.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by koeh on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 6:20 pm

I am pretty sure that 5% or over ya need a license,
From memory you will need a secure yard, a lockable cabinet to store it in, a safety shower, eye wash station
all PPE including apron, gloves, face shield, etc they were going to send work safe to check the premises for security and storage cabinet, safety gear bla bla,
Ray it wouldn't hurt to have a safety plan thrown in with ya application or even a blueprint of where you will be using it ie distance from actual use to safety shower/ eyewash station,calcium gluconate,
I even went to the local hospital and asked if they had calcium gluconate on hand and they did as they used it to do with strokes or something,
I wish I went through with mine but it was too much BS for me,


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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Tue 23 Dec 2014, 6:27 pm

I will wait and see what they--health dept--come up with.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Qld Sandy on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:32 am

oneday wrote:Rang BOC Ktown yesterday and now u need a permit to buy the stainless pickling jel ---so application has gone in.

regards
oneday

The bottle I bought is a liquid and definitely not a gel. I did see a gel listed but thought that would be useless for what we want it to do. Cheers.

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 12:40 pm

its a schedule 7 poison in WA--permit required --how much HF is in it---5% or more

I'm looking for 10%.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Wed 14 Jan 2015, 9:44 am

still waiting --suppose u cant expect too much from public servants but now they cant find the application---mmmm

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Wedgetail on Wed 14 Jan 2015, 8:23 pm

Ray,

I had a HF permit years ago. I got it mainly by using my experience in the Oil & Gas game in refineries. How about working with 80 TONNES of total anhydrous!! affraid

It lapsed years ago and these days I don't bother with cleaning much. If it's a specie, crush it, if it's nugget with dirt in it - smelt it. Way back when I was selling gold overseas I only ever got "over the top" prices for REALLY BEAUTIFUL pieces. But for the other, smaller, plainer stuff it wasn't worth the effort of buying the HF, washing, neutralising etc. It became a PIA. Now I can't bothered and rarely find really good gold that would be worth the messing around. (The glory days are over I reckon)


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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Mon 26 Jan 2015, 6:20 am

well they have taken out the application fee of $360 so will wait and see what eventuates now.

I get a fair bit of gold come my way but geez everyone wants mint bullion prices for their stash and unfortunately the vast majority is smelting grade only.

sorry to disappoint--all gold isn't beautiful.

regards
oneday

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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Inhere on Mon 26 Jan 2015, 8:40 am

Qld Sandy wrote:
oneday wrote:Rang BOC Ktown yesterday and now u need a permit to buy the stainless pickling jel ---so application has gone in.

regards
oneday

The bottle I bought is a liquid and definitely not a gel. I did see a gel listed but thought that would be useless for what we want it to do. Cheers.

We always got a gel for S/S welding , used gallons of the stuff,
never seen the liquid.
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Re: poisons act--HF Acid.

Post by Guest on Mon 26 Jan 2015, 8:43 am

eastern states must have very lax laws with the purchase of HF..

regards
oneday

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