lost target

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lost target

Post by aussie18 on Sun 30 Nov 2014, 2:08 pm

I was thinking today about a good signal I got on my last trip out Coolgardie way a few months back.
after 2 days of frustration with trash I tried another area near by when I got a sweet sounding signal, beauty I thought best sound I've heard this trip, after pinpointing the signal with me coil in I go scraping a couple inch's out. target still in the hole checked the dirt that I had already removed just in case and away I go again.
now to cut a long story short I ended up at about 14inchs in depth when I hit a white clay or calcrete, very soft as easy to dig in as the red dirt above but was sticky. this got the heart pumping but the signal never got louder but remained solid, just that sweet gold sound. after 3-4 inch of this white dirt I'd lost the signal at the bottom off the hole but was still getting it a couple inch's from the bottom where the red dirt met this white stuff,  ok widen the hole then, ended up I would guestimate 750mm square and 18 inch deep but completely lost the signal I thoroughly checked the dirt out of the hole as I was removing it and for 15 mins after losing the signal from my open pit I'd dug. as this hour plus process was going on the sky had clouded up and down came the rain for the next 3 hours,could I have been getting interference ?. as this effort was happening I regularly ground balanced and tested the tecky of to the side and never got a spike or any noise and the target did sound very nice and not like a emi spike.
I had to fill it in and walk away, but it still eats at me every now and then, ground noise I put it down to but it had me going for a while.
was it the white clay/calcrete giving me this signal ? but why did it disappear the deeper I went into it, and how can I lose a decent solid signal ? if it was a hot rock, nugget or junk I would have found it out the hole.
anyway it was a experience, sort of wish I had pulled some lead or something out coz I thought I was losing me marbles around the camp fire that night, had a couple of 1st timers with me and was talking it up every time we checked the hole and it talked back to me.  I'm guessing a few have had this happen to them, or at least I hope jkihyig jkihyig

jase

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Re: lost target

Post by Moneybox on Sun 30 Nov 2014, 2:53 pm

aussie18 wrote:I was thinking today about a good signal I got on my last trip out Coolgardie way a few months back.
after 2 days of frustration with trash I tried another area near by when I got a sweet sounding signal, beauty I thought best sound I've heard this trip, after pinpointing the signal with me coil in I go scraping a couple inch's out. target still in the hole checked the dirt that I had already removed just in case and away I go again.
now to cut a long story short I ended up at about 14inchs in depth when I hit a white clay or calcrete, very soft as easy to dig in as the red dirt above but was sticky. this got the heart pumping but the signal never got louder but remained solid, just that sweet gold sound. after 3-4 inch of this white dirt I'd lost the signal at the bottom off the hole but was still getting it a couple inch's from the bottom where the red dirt met this white stuff,  ok widen the hole then, ended up I would guestimate 750mm square and 18 inch deep but completely lost the signal I thoroughly checked the dirt out of the hole as I was removing it and for 15 mins after losing the signal from my open pit I'd dug. as this hour plus process was going on the sky had clouded up and down came the rain for the next 3 hours,could I have been getting interference ?. as this effort was happening I regularly ground balanced and tested the tecky of to the side and never got a spike or any noise and the target did sound very nice and not like a emi spike.
I had to fill it in and walk away, but it still eats at me every now and then, ground noise I put it down to but it had me going for a while.
was it the white clay/calcrete giving me this signal ? but why did it disappear the deeper I went into it, and how can I lose a decent solid signal ? if it was a hot rock, nugget or junk I would have found it out the hole.
anyway it was a experience, sort of wish I had pulled some lead or something out coz I thought I was losing me marbles around the camp fire that night, had a couple of 1st timers with me and was talking it up every time we checked the hole and it talked back to me.  I'm guessing a few have had this happen to them, or at least I hope jkihyig jkihyig

jase
Hay jase did you think to run the detector past your mates pockets ? lol!

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Re: lost target

Post by Narrawa on Sun 30 Nov 2014, 8:39 pm

Wait till it happens to you a few more times mate. Laughing

All i can say is i must have flipped whatever it was from the hole and away from the tailing's the times iv had it happen. scratch

We are not the only ones mate, i was with a gent when the same thing happened....he accused me of seeing it and pocketing it. Embarassed
Another fella i was with in a group...same thing, although he had better sense than to accuse anyone that was onlooking.

Let it go man and don't give it another thought....its not the strangest thing you'll encounter. Laughing Laughing

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Re: lost target

Post by Moneybox on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:31 am

I've been caught a couple of times digging right past the target. The coil doesn't give much indication of position once you're down a bit. I use the propointer as soon as it gets to deep to easily swing the pick. It can really cut down on the amount of dirt you dig.

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Re: lost target

Post by Nightjar on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 6:22 am

Did you try running in "enhance?"








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Re: lost target

Post by Flying kiwi on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 7:49 am

yea dug a few craters of my own for no gain Mad

can sound real sweet target dig down a bit still there dig down some more and its gone or moved a bit end up chasing It around, chasing ground noise is frustrating as hell, but its hard to walk away until you know for sure
few things to double check if you are not sure,
1) if you have dug down a fair bit and are still not sure chances are it is ground noise
2) if signal stays the same and doesn't brighten up despite going deeper,
3) swing back over the target at the same height (don't dip into your hole) you first picked it up is it quieter? may have dug some of the hot ground out of the way.
4) ground balance on your pile of dirt you have dug out and try again gone?
5) as peter suggests flick into a less sensitive timing eg FG - enhance not as twitchy on hot ground.
6) often the signal will only sound of in one direction, I find this is normally the join between two types of rock or a drop off in the bedrock
7)burned stumps / charcoal can sound off as well

good luck lwkgthgt

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Re: lost target

Post by mulgadansa on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 12:57 pm

Gday Jase
What detector and settings were you using? Pre gpx4500 can be bastards for this sort of thing.
There's a patch out at Fields Find that does this even with a 4500.
cheers
Brett

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Re: lost target

Post by aussie18 on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:04 pm

g'day all and cheers for your suggestions
Brett and Peter was running the 5000 in fine/enhance at the time as I was getting a bit off chatter from the iron, I'm not massively exp and was the 1st time I'd had to run in enhanced due to ground noise and was impressed how quietly it was running.
Phil I actually brought a minelab pin pointer before going out that trip, me mate turned it on while I had the detector turned on, even though I had coil 11inch mono facing away from the pin pointer and was standing a couple metres away both detector and pin pointer went berserk, it was lucky I didn't throw the pin pointer in the hole before filling it back in, maybe I should read the instruction book before using it [ is there one ?] better have a look haha.
I'm a little annoyed I should have taken photo's or better still video, I'm usually running 20 years behind technology and although now have the gizmo to do so it's not installed in my brain to immediately document these sort of doing's.
as Narrawa say's I'm sure it won't be the last empty pit I dig, but I bloody hope the next one has a golden prize in it.
cheers
jase


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Re: lost target

Post by Peaky on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:29 pm

Jase


I have had the same thing and had one this weekend

The only thing I could think it was is a pocket of Iron rich ground ( much higher that the surrounding ground )

So when you pull it apart with the pick the detector cant or wont pick it up anymore

Only seems to happen to the signals that don't get any stronger when you have taken some inches off

Look at the up side at least you are not Working mate cheers

Peaky

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Re: lost target

Post by aussie18 on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:44 pm

yep sounds like a logical solution peaky and yep enjoyed me couple days of work.
when the target don't get louder after a few scrapes I will be walking away, was just getting a bit desperate that weekend as no gold was found
well over due again for a bush trip, only got the 3 quick trips in so far this year including the aussie day weekend we had out there. had a trip cancelled on me a month or so ago by the fella I was heading out with. I did learn a few things that weekend though, it's hard to go bush with a few 1st timers, a few bits of junk and there back at camp drinking it up. also trying to keep on top of there technique, turn ya back for 5 mins and the coil is all over the place. then when the piss kicks in ya get there's no gold here where's the gold jase where's the f....ing gold, this is sh.t.
lets go home.....

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Re: lost target

Post by CrazyPete on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 3:50 pm

Ahhh Jase mate Razz Razz Razz thats when ya out drink the new sodds n bust ya foot on a 2kg spec mate Razz Razz Razz

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Re: lost target

Post by Peaky on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 4:36 pm

Jase

Over the last 12 Months I have taken "Newbies" out and it is a big task

It effects the way you detect big time because they expect you to put them on the Gold

I have started just setting them up and leaving them to it till I have found some

I will give them tips but I will not hold there hand any more

No one did it for me I had to walk around for two days in the bush to find a Bit all the time thinking I have just set the detector up to find TIN HAHA

Don't beat your self up over that and I think the Mates you took our should be thank full that they got the chance to go

We should just hook up and get out there Bugger the Green Horns

Peaky

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Re: lost target

Post by mulgadansa on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 5:19 pm

Gday Jase
Enhanced on a 5000 is about as quiet as you can get without losing too much grunt, so it's not that.
After I'd posted I remembered another patch just north of Meeka where we had this issue. Gravel/laterite and we'd found one nugg and right alongside it and for several metres around we started getting ripper signals and thought hello, hello, patch. Zilch. Took some samples and panned off at camp, nothing. Lot of black sands. Didn't try a magnet but it would've been iron. I'm sort of leaning to the iron enriched pockets scenario. I think it's just something we have to grin and bear in this state with our mineralisation.
I dunno about the newbies. The ones I've taught have been fantastic and it's very rewarding seeing them get into it. Maybe you were just unlucky in the ones you chose. Don't give up on others but. Probably one of the most rewarding things I've done out detecting. I got taught by a gun back in 1978 and have always liked the idea of passing that on.
cheers
Brett
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Re: lost target

Post by aussie18 on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 5:40 pm

yes Brett the newbies I took out was mates off mine and loved the thought off being bush finding gold but don't really have a interest in it, none had read a book or used the internet to find anything out for themselves. yes was taught myself by a gun on here  but better not mention his name again coz his bloody head is big enough
although I miss the bugger now coz I'm sure he has another 30+years of experience to share, but he is on the other side of our country
and yep peaky anytime your heading out mate send us a PM or email and will see if I can do it, I will do likewise.
cheers
jase

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Re: lost target

Post by martinjsto on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 6:29 pm

had a similar scenario Jase with newbies, last ones up in the morning and first to get back to camp. got the "wheres the gold" after a few days and when i found some they were p*ssed i didnt take them to the spot. had no intention to go off and explore for ground himself. most i have been with are great company and keen so they work hard and are fine but you always get one.
gees i have dug some holes now chasing the exact same target noise for nothing. i guess its something you get in WA soils. i now only did the ones that sound off in enhanced.

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Re: lost target

Post by Peaky on Mon 01 Dec 2014, 6:39 pm

Gents

One thing a Guru from this forum showed me is to Ground Balance on the dirt you have pulled out of the ground

I did this on the weekend and the sound from the hole went

So I re ground balanced on the surrounding ground and the sound was there

I still had to dig the hole but that may just be the key to testing the signal cos if it was Gold the sound would still be there

Just a thought ???

Pete Back me up on this one

Peaky

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Re: lost target

Post by Moneybox on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 12:56 am

aussie18 wrote:
Phil I actually brought a minelab pin pointer before going out that trip, me mate turned it on while I had the detector turned on, even though I had coil 11inch mono  facing away from the pin pointer and was standing a couple metres away both detector and pin pointer went berserk, it was lucky I didn't throw the pin pointer in the hole before filling it back in, maybe I should read the instruction book before using it [ is there one ?] better have a look
jase

I don't know about the Minelab pointer. If you turn the Garrett on while touching the soil it ground balances it so it's not going off at everything in sight.

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Re: lost target

Post by CrazyPete on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:30 am

Peaky wrote:Gents

One thing a Good lookin bloke from this forum showed me is to Ground Balance on the dirt you have pulled out of the ground

I did this on the weekend and the sound from the hole went

So I re ground balanced on the surrounding ground and the sound was there

I still had to dig the hole but that may just be the key to testing the signal cos if it was Gold the sound would still be there

Just a thought ???

Pete Back me up on this one

Peaky


Hahaha not sure about the "Gun" or "Guru" title fellas but yeah Peaky, that's the way to check those spurious noises out.
There's always the other chance that it's a small patch or basin in the underlying strata that has become super salt enriched
and that can also give ya the very same scenario as Jase had, most people forget about the "Salt Gold" timing we have these days but a quick flick into it will sort it out if it is a salt basin.

As to taking newbies out ive never had a problem with any ive taken besides their slow drinkin pace, but most
soon warm to the idea that "We bring water for washin up not drinkin" Razz Razz cheers lol!

Hey Peaky, maybe you n Jase should go smash that area where them young blokes rolled the hilux ute ??


Pete Cool

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Re: lost target

Post by Guest on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 4:25 am

Have had signals dissapear from time to time, the iffy ones are easy to sort out as being ground noise etc, but when you get a good solid signal and then when you think its out of the hole and then it dissapears then thats another thing altogether.

Makes you think that you might have whacked it with the pick and its shot away somewhere or its stuck in the tred of your boots or whatever.

Anyway one time it happened and when the positive signal just vanished I was determined to work out what it was, a head down and ass up inspection of the dirt pile revealed some silvery speck and flakes, too small to see when you are standing up, further probing found some bigger pieces, what it turned out to be was silver foil, the type used in cigarette packets.

I reckon the foil was rolled into a ball and tossed onto the ground or into a hole or whatever and then after being long buried it deteriorated, while balled up it gave a positive signal but as soon as its disturbed it breaks up and the signal dissapears.

The other thing that can happen is small thin nuggets that are laying flat in the ground will give a good positive signal but once disturbed they can stand on edge and are then easily lost, also the halo effect on a very small nugget can make it an audible target but once out of situ they can be very hard to relocate.

au-fever

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Re: lost target

Post by Peaky on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:58 am

Pete

I was thinking the same thing

THE HANGOVER PATCH kwdf kwdf

Needs some working we only had the one night going over that place

Only thing is it is a winter only spot

Jase That's the first trip next year when the weather is cooler wegr

Peaky

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Re: lost target

Post by aussie18 on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 4:41 pm

sounds good man, anything under 35 is winter ay !! lol!

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Re: lost target

Post by Guest on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 7:08 pm

why don't u blokes buy an off road van or campa trailer with a decent AIr Con installed and detect at night and rest in the heat.
geez if that ground has the potential then a small investment in a bit of luxury will pay dividends I reckon.
who ever buys it can hire it out or go partners..where theres a will theres a way I reckon.

regards
oneday

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Re: lost target

Post by CrazyPete on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:44 am

hahaha and nobody would be able to hear youz moanin

Yeah Peaky plenny gold to be got there workin that line of strike me thinks wegr

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Re: lost target

Post by Steady Eddie on Sun 14 Dec 2014, 6:43 pm


I had a very similar incident Aussie 18.
I came across two very sweet sounding targets in the Murchison, two years ago; only metres apart, over a wider area.
I thought this is it, you've finally cracked it! I went for the lauder one first, and after around 30cm the ground became solid calcrete. It all fitted the bill as nearby 'old timers' diggings all went through that 'concrete' to arrive at their treasure
just below in reddish clay. The ground was rough, and I had to carry the long crow bar a near 400 metres, together with an assortment of coils, for some more testing, before committing. Although the calcrete was whiter and harder
than 'their's', I started, and after 2 blisters later the sound began to disappear slowly, until I finally chucked in the towel.
I can only assume that the sound was caused by the dense calcrete itself, in several places.
But mate I tell you, it had me going over the same place day after day in order to make sense of it all, as the racing heart
can not so easily be brought under control.
It was just 'one of those things'.(alas)
Steady Eddie Suspect

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