TENGRAPH QUESTION

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TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 6:00 pm

Hi All,

I am learning how to fly tengraph ATM.
Question is : I am zoomed in on the Cardinia area, centred 28 47 02 S 121 36 13 E and I see something called Common with an orange border around it with broad arrow symbol and numbered in orange 16996 plus some orange FNA numbers. The " common " area is also covered in Mining leases and Prospecting licences. What does this all mean to the new chum ( ME !! ) in terms of actually swinging a detector there ? I seem to recall reading about " commons " somewhere, but CRAFT disease has got the better of me in terms of what we are allowed to do there ? The common seems to about 2 miles EW by about 3.5 miles NS. Does " common " over-ride the other tenements ?
I also notice that just west of the common there are a large number of pending prospecting licences. It is my understanding that you could detect over these until live ??

Cheers,
Rick

araratgold


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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 6:16 pm

Tengraph is updated at midnight every night. So what you have just described could change. I wouldn't rely on what you have just looked at.
Check it again tomorrow, and every day.

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 6:18 pm

Rick

This will answer all your questions mate attached below Wink
The only thing you need to worry about is the mineral leases, they take all precedent over
all pastoral leases,comonage etc for our reasons..

Pete Cool


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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 6:52 pm

Crazy Pete wrote:Rick

This will answer all your questions mate attached below Wink
The only thing you need to worry about is the mineral leases, they take all precedent over
all pastoral leases,comonage etc for our reasons..

Pete Cool


Hi Pete and Cliff,
Thanks for that. I do have a copy of the legend, but my main query here was what does the common area mean ? Some of it is covered by mining lease, which I guess is off limits, and some is covered by live Prospecting licences which as I understand it are " little man's licences " ie doze and detect, and are also off limits ?

The reason I ask is that one of our members Delapan, wrote about detecting this area late last year " ok, who wants an X marks the spot "

I am just trying to establish whether this being a " common " area allows you to detect there ?
The miners right pamphlet says " Possession of a Miner's Right does not authorise these activities on private land or Reserve land
(except where the purpose is a Common, Mining or Public Utility).
I have a good grasp of the EL's in relation to 20A permits, but this is a bit different !

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I am trying to get a good grasp of this system so I can do the right thing !

Cheers,
Rick


Last edited by araratgold on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 7:03 pm

It still confuses the sh*t outa me. You can go on "Pending Ground" and ya don't need permission or a permit, you can get on "EL's" with a 20A, the rest ya keep off, If i'm correct.
Open ground, go for ya life, I think. But then Ya have Native Title, so watch out for that.

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 7:09 pm

I would like to say what I really think about it all, but I gotta be careful coz forums do get looked at by spies and I gettin off track a bit.

Ya can't go on farming land, mostly it is owned privately but you can ask permission from the cocky if it is sitting on known alluvial gold areas. But there is a lot of known farming land that has EL's and mining leases on it. I'm trying to get on a farm that has alluvial gold, but the cocky is scared of the company. f##k the company, if it's private owned farm, I want to get on it.

It ain't as easy as people think to get out there. That's why you have to check tengraph everyday to check for the changes. What is pending ground today could be granted lease tomorrow. It's a never ending game and it sh#ts me off.


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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 8:02 pm

Rick as to Common marked on TG it is allowed,see wa mining act 1978

Crown Land
•9.1 As defined in the Act Crown land includes reserves for common and public utility, leases for grazing purposes only, leases of Crown land for the use and benefit of the Aboriginal inhabitants and leases for timber or pastoral purposes. It does not include private land or other reserved land

FNA = File notaion area
FNA FILE NOTATION
AREA
SPECIAL CATEGORY
LAND
VARIOUS File Notation Areas are:
- An indication of areas where Government has proposed some change of land tenure that is being
considered or endorsed by DMP for possible implementation; and/or
- Areas of some sensitivity to activities by the mineral resource industry that warrants the application of
specific tenement conditions.

In the end Rick it all comes down to mineral lease type and state "ie" Active/pending mate.
All active leases besides Exploration leases require written consent to prospect from the relevent owner.
If the chap on the other forum who suggested the X spot didnt have written permission then he was poaching.

Download the attached file below mate Wink

Hope i made it easier to understand this time mate, the laws can be a bit tricky in WA.

Pete

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Narrawa on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 8:17 pm

also notice that just west of the common there are a large number of pending prospecting licences. It is my understanding that you could detect over these until live ??
The simple answer is yes, you can detect the plain blue areas, but not if that blue is of a lighter shade....that lighter shade of blue is because there is most probable a live/active lease underneath the shaded area.
There is a way to turn the blue shading off and leave those areas blue outlined...making it much more clearer to see the no go zones. You'll find the how to under selections/tailor display/tenements... Click on the center of the blue box to the right of the Pending box that has the tick in it...push apply and watch the screen.
It may help some it might not...i use both shaded and outlined depending on what im looking at.??
I upload the corner pegs of any boundary im on into my GPS, i than turn them into a rout which causes the GPS to mark it with an outline.....this is what you shuv up the nose of idiots who try to tell you...and they will...that your on our lease.!!

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 9:11 pm

good stuff narrawa but that brings into question the accuracy of ya GPS again. Without a complete survey being done, which they don't do, it comes downs to gps again. No GPS is accurate, and that is the truth.

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Narrawa on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 9:51 pm

No argument there Cliff...we can also add in to the inaccuracy of the Tangraph, a thing ( and i could be wrong )called...Plate shift. Where the boundaries are out by about 7-10 meters.???

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 4:16 am

Thanks guys,
It sure sounds bloody confusing !
I can understand old Ma and Pa nomad struggling with the system and ending up in the wrong place ! I'm fairly tech savvy and having enough trouble !
Hard too if you don't have live acces to Tengraph whilst out in the field for a week at a time.
I think i wil just stick to the EL areas, sounds less confusing !

Many thanks for all your help,
Rick

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 6:16 am

i think it's all over kill my self, should be one ticket and one ticket only to detect, and all these leasess is just over the top. they should look at people get one lease and not able to get another for a few years and pt a time frame on how long the lease stands for. i think thery should look at how much ground you can put a lease on... in vic it's bloody hard to get a lease and cost way to much, best think is we can just drive at the bush and detect non of this tengraphing and checking what ticket you need...
cheers
stoppsy

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by mulgadansa on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 9:09 am

Gday Rick
Been looking at the forum for a while and just registered so I could answer your q re "Common".
All the old townsites used to have an area set aside around them called a common. It was so that the people living there could run their horses/stock whatever in that area without interfering with the adjacent pastoral leases.
The companies that now have ml's and el's over those areas seem to regard the townsite reserves and commons as their property but I'm not quite sure about their claim to that as I seem to remember that all reserves were excised from the tenements.
cheers
Brett

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:25 pm

Now this is interesting and comes from the DMP website.

How reliable are the coordinates obtained from TENGRAPH?

Coordinates obtained from TENGRAPH are intended as a guide only and may not reflect the accuracy of the ground position. Coordinates associated with surveyed boundaries are subject to minor adjustment due to improved survey and data maintenance procedures.


This might be helpful.

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 2:09 pm

mulgadansa,

Thanks for that regarding commons.
That's why I asked about the common at Cardinia ( not a town ), as Delapan from DWAG forum mentioned it in his post " who wants an x marks the spot ? " The thing is at Cardinia common there are tenements completely covering it ! So buggered if I know whether you are actually allowed to detect there or not ?!!
Does anyone know what the story is with Mining leases that are issued for 21 years, but the mine may only have a life of 5 years ? The remaining 16 years that piece of ground is tied up, without any intent to mine by the company holding the lease ! I guess that would be real-estating then ! Rolling Eyes

Cliff, interesting info re the accuracy of co-ords. As a matter of interest, are you able to click on the tenement corners on tengraph and get co-ords ? I haven't been able to work out how to do it.

Narrawa,
Thanks for your info. Got me stumped though how a pending tenement can be over the top of a live one ? wtf

Cheers,
Rick

araratgold


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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 4:14 pm

araratgold wrote:mulgadansa,

Thanks for that regarding commons.
That's why I asked about the common at Cardinia ( not a town ), as Delapan from DWAG forum mentioned it in his post " who wants an x marks the spot ? " The thing is at Cardinia common there are tenements completely covering it ! So buggered if I know whether you are actually allowed to detect there or not ?!!
Does anyone know what the story is with Mining leases that are issued for 21 years, but the mine may only have a life of 5 years ? The remaining 16 years that piece of ground is tied up, without any intent to mine by the company holding the lease ! I guess that would be real-estating then ! Rolling Eyes

Rick - it doesn't matter what type of ground it is at all, whether its common, aboriginal reserve, pastoral lease
or even a chook shed on a station, if it is covered by a mineral tenement of any kind you are bound under the WA mining act 1978 and its laws in regard to prospecting under a WA Miners right.
What this means is if its a Mining lease (ML) written permission is needed, if its a Prospecting lease (P) written
permission is needed, if its a general lease (L) written permission is needed.
If any of these leases are also on an Aboriginal reserve then permission from the elders is also needed as well
as written permission from the relevant lease holder.

Remember its only the mineral lease titles that we are concerned with not the "Above ground" holders.

As already posted, all active Exploration leases (green color) need a 20a
and all pending lease of any sort (Blue colored) be it a mining,prospecting or general lease are open game,no permission needed or 20a



Cliff, interesting info re the accuracy of co-ords. As a matter of interest, are you able to click on the tenement corners on Tengraph and get co-ords ? I haven't been able to work out how to do it.

In TG Click on "windows" then "coordinates" and tick "at mouse position, then click on any were
in the screen and the coords are in the "coordinates window that opened.
you can also click on View in Google from that same coordinates window


Razz Razz you'll get the drift after 30 odd years like we had to also mate jkihyig jkihyig :rolf:


Pete Cool

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 4:23 pm

Most times a pending lease over a live lease is a mining lease that the same company is wanting to convert their underneath lease into.
Say the lease thats underneath and active is a EL (exploration) then
they cover that with a pending mining lease, the next step up to active
mining (big pit).
They do this so no on jumps that lease at 12.midnight when the underneath runs out.
I hear there are actual programs that watch tenements much like
the Ebay auto bidding programs and jump in on the dot.
So this way the active holder stops that BS from goin on.

Oh and some of the top pending ones are blokes who companies who
want that under lease should it be relinquished by the holder

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 4:48 pm

There's a book called "War and Peace", it's a long long long story much like the WA Mining Laws affraid :rolf: :rolf:

I had to say that, I couldn't help myself kwdf klsdlbne paeirgcy vp

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 4:58 pm

Thanks Pete,

As you say, I'll get the hang of it after 30 years lol!

Spoke to the boss at work today about the requirement to do one shift in 3 months. Explained I want to take my old man on a " bucket list " trip to WA next year and he said no worries, we can vary that for you to 4 months, so we may be spending almost 4 months plundering your gold if things go to plan ! Very Happy Very Happy
That should give us time to suss the joint out a little bit ! Very Happy


Cheers,
Rick


Last edited by araratgold on Tue 31 Jul 2012, 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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tengraph question

Post by johnf on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 5:08 pm

Hi Rick, when i,ve got the tengraph map for the area your interested in from the mines dept, it has the date on it. You then have 2 weeks from that date to use that lease etc info so you don,t need to check daily while in the bush. cheers,john

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by araratgold on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 5:14 pm

johnf wrote:Hi Rick, when i,ve got the tengraph map for the area your interested in from the mines dept, it has the date on it. You then have 2 weeks from that date to use that lease etc info so you don,t need to check daily while in the bush. cheers,john

Hi John,
Thanks for that, but I won't be needing that sort of thing till next year. I am just trying to learn all the ins and outs of this Tengraph system ATM, so I can get the most out of my trip next year.
But it is interesting though that the info is valid for a fortnight on the maps supplied by the mines dept. Very Happy

Cheers,
Rick

araratgold


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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Tue 31 Jul 2012, 9:28 am

Gday Rick,
Mate,if you think your having problems with Tenagraph,spare a thought for a Computer Illiterate like myself.
I will be six feet under before I can work out where to have a swing in WA next year Rolling Eyes

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Bignuggs on Tue 31 Jul 2012, 1:10 pm

johnf wrote:Hi Rick, when i,ve got the tengraph map for the area your interested in from the mines dept, it has the date on it. You then have 2 weeks from that date to use that lease etc info so you don,t need to check daily while in the bush. cheers,john

Now that was interesting and something I've never heard of so I called DMP. I hate to throw a spanner in the works here but there is no 2 weeks period to use the information. it is incumbent on the prospector/detectorist to keep up to date with the changes to lease status regardless of the fact you are in the scrub with no internet access.

Example: you have a map for pending ground, head out today for a few days. At midnight tonight the lease changes to active EL or ML. Tomorrow you are found on the lease, you have to leave the lease when asked. The only way you can stay is if you get permission from the lease holder to stay.
(information supplied by DMP mineral titles section 12.55 WST today)

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Re: TENGRAPH QUESTION

Post by Guest on Tue 31 Jul 2012, 4:19 pm

Bring back the old prospectin days in WA ay

Gimme a few camels some water and a bloody big gun
and the gleaming surface reefs fulla easy gold. Very Happy

Pete Cool

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